2. Sunday, January 18, 1998, Meeting with Ms. Currie
Because the President referred so often to Ms. Currie, it
was foreseeable that she might become a witness in the Jones
matter, particularly if specific allegations of the President's
relationship with Ms. Lewinsky came to light.(400) Indeed,
according to Ms. Currie, President Clinton at some point may have
told her that she might be asked about Monica Lewinsky.(401)
Shortly after 7:00 p.m. on Saturday, January 17, 1998, two
and a half hours after he returned from the deposition, President
Clinton called Ms. Currie at home(402) and asked her to come to the
White House the next day.(403) Ms. Currie testified that "[i]t's
rare for [President Clinton] to ask me to come in on Sunday."(404)
At about 5:00 p.m. on Sunday, January 18, Ms. Currie went to
meet with President Clinton at the White House. She told the
grand jury:
He said that he had had his deposition yesterday, and
they had asked several questions about Monica Lewinsky.
And I was a little shocked by that or -- (shrugging).
And he said -- I don't know if he said -- I think he
may have said, "There are several things you may want
to know," or "There are things -- " He asked me some
questions.(405)
According to Ms. Currie, the President then said to her in
succession:(406)
"You were always there when she was there, right?
We were never really alone."(407)
"You could see and hear everything."(408)
"Monica came on to me, and I never touched her,
right?"(409)
"She wanted to have sex with me, and I can't do
that."(410)
Ms. Currie indicated that these remarks were "more like
statements than questions."(411) Ms. Currie concluded that the
President wanted her to agree with him.(412) She based that
conclusion on the way he made most of the statements and on his
demeanor.(413) Ms. Currie also said that she felt the President
made these remarks to see her reaction.(414)
Ms. Currie said that she indicated her agreement with each
of the President's statements,(415) although she knew that the
President and Ms. Lewinsky had in fact been alone in the Oval
Office and in the President's study.(416) Ms. Currie also knew that
she could not or did not in fact hear or see the President and
Ms. Lewinsky while they were alone.(417)
In the context of this conversation, President Clinton
appeared to be "concerned," according to Ms. Currie.(418)
334. Podesta 2/5/98 GJ at 31-33, 35, 40-41.
335. Richardson 4/30/98 Depo. at 28.
336. Lewinsky 7/31/98 Int. at 12. Ms. Lewinsky said that she
spoke to President Clinton about the phone call on October 23,
during which she suggested to the President that she was
interested in some job other than at the United Nations. Id.
According to Ms. Lewinsky, the President replied that he just
wanted her to have some options. Id.
Ms. Lewinsky said that she spoke to the President again on
October 30 about the interview, in which she expressed anxiety
about meeting with the Ambassador. Ms. Lewinsky said that the
President told her to call Betty Currie after the interview so he
would know how the interview went. Id. at 13.
337. Lewinsky 7/31/98 Int. at 14.
338. Lewinsky 8/26/98 Depo. at 67; Lewinsky 7/31/98 Int. at
14.
339. >Lewinsky 7/31/98 Int. at 14.
340. Id. at 15. Ms. Lewinsky related this incident to her
friend, Catherine Allday Davis, in a near-contemporaneous email.
1037-DC-00000017. See also Catherine Davis 3/17/98 GJ at 124.
341. Lewinsky 7/31/98 Int. at 14-15.
342. V004-DC-00000135 (Akin Gump phone records); Jordan
5/5/98 GJ at 52-55.
343. Lewinsky 8/6/98 GJ at 26-27 and GJ Exhibit ML-7.
Ms. Lewinsky stated that just before Thanksgiving, 1997, she
called Betty Currie and asked her to contact Vernon Jordan and
prod him along in the job search. Lewinsky 8/4/98 Int. at 8. It
was Ms. Lewinsky's understanding that Jordan was helping her at
the request of the President and Ms. Currie. Id.
344. See Clinton 8/17/98 GJ at 84-85. Under the federal
witness tampering statutes, it is a crime to corruptly persuade a
witness to alter his testimony. See 18 U.S.C. §§ 1503, 1512.
345. 1178-DC-00000026 (WAVES records).
346. Lewinsky 8/4/98 Int. at 2.
347. Jordan 3/3/98 GJ at 48-49.
348. Id. at 65.
349. 921-DC-000000459-66.
350. Lewinsky 8/6/98 GJ at 121-23.
351. Id. at 121; Lewinsky 8/1/98 Int. at 6, 10.
352. Lewinsky 8/6/98 GJ at 127-28.
353. Id. at 138-41; Lewinsky 2/1/98 Statement at 6; cf.
Jordan 3/3/98 GJ at 182-90 (recalls discussion of job search
only).
354. V002-DC-000000052 (President Clinton's Supplemental
Responses to Plaintiff's Second Set of Interrogatories).
355. Lewinsky 8/6/98 GJ at 149.
356. Lewinsky 8/6/98 GJ at 151-52; Lewinsky 7/27/98 Int. at
7. This was the same meeting where the President and
Ms. Lewinsky discussed their concerns over the Lewinsky subpoena
and its demand for the production of gifts.
357. Sutphen 5/27/98 Depo. at 39; Lewinsky 7/27/98 Int. at 5.
358. Lewinsky 8/6/98 GJ at 191-98, 205-06.
359. Jordan 5/5/98 GJ at 223-25.
360. Id. at 232; Lewinsky 8/6/98 GJ at 209.
361. Lewinsky 8/6/98 GJ at 208-10.
362. Jordan 5/28/98 GJ at 39 (emphasis added).
363. Ms. Jones's attorney named the "other women" he planned
to call at trial:
Mr. Fisher: They would include . . . Monica Lewinsky
Judge Wright: Can you tell me who she is?
Mr. Fisher: Yes, your Honor.
Judge Wright: I never heard of her.
Mr. Fisher: She's the young woman who worked in the
White House for a period of time and was
later transferred to a job in the
Pentagon.
1414-DC-00001327-28.
364. 1414-DC-00001334-46.
365. Lewinsky 8/6/98 GJ at 214.
366. Bowles 4/2/98 GJ at 78-79.
367. Hilley 5/19/98 GJ at 74; Hilley 5/26/98 GJ at 11.
368. 830-DC-0000007.
369. 921-DC-00000775-78; 1292-DC-000000661-86.
370. The arrangement may not be explicitly spelled out. In
this case, for example, there is no evidence that Ms. Lewinsky
received an explicit proposal where someone said, "I'll give you
a job if you lie under oath."
371. In a recorded conversation, Ms. Lewinsky discussed the
job assistance various individuals, including Vernon Jordan, gave
Webster Hubbell, and she expressed her concern that someone could
similarly consider the assistance she was provided as improper in
some manner: "I think somebody could construe, okay? Somebody
could construe or say, 'Well, they gave her a job to shut her up.
They made her happy.'" T2 at 11.
372. Clinton 1/17/98 Depo. at 68-69 (emphasis added).
373. Id. at 72 (emphasis added). See also id. at 73 ("[m]y
understanding was . . . that she was going to move to New York
and that she was looking for some advice [from Jordan] about what
she should do when she got there").
374. Jordan 3/5/98 GJ at 26.
375. Jordan 3/5/98 GJ at 29.
376. 833-DC-0017890 (Pentagon phone records). See also
Jordan 3/3/98 GJ at 92-93 (testifying that Ms. Lewinsky called
him up and she was "very upset" about "being served with a
subpoena in the Paula Jones case").
377. Jordan 5/5/98 GJ at 142-43.
378. Id. at 133-34. Mr. Jordan had told Ms. Lewinsky to come
see him at 5:00 p.m. Lewinsky 8/6/98 GJ at 129. See also Jordan
5/5/98 GJ at 144 (relating why he wanted to tell the President
about Ms. Lewinsky's subpoena).
379. 1178-DC-00000014 (White House phone records); Jordan
5/5/98 GJ at 145.
380. Jordan 5/5/98 GJ at 145-47.
381. Jordan 3/3/98 GJ at 167-69. White House records
indicate that Mr. Jordan was scheduled to arrive at 8:00 p.m.,
and actually arrived at 8:15 p.m. See 1178-DC-00000026 (WAVES
record). Mr. Jordan testified, however, that he is certain that
he did not arrive at the White House until after 10 p.m. Jordan
5/5/98 GJ at 164.
382. Jordan 3/3/98 GJ at 169.
383. Id. at 172.
384. Jordan 5/5/98 GJ at 221-22.
385. Jordan 3/5/98 GJ at 24-25, 33; Jordan 5/5/98 GJ at 223-26; V004-DC-00000159 (Akin Gump phone records).
386. The affidavit is dated January 7, 1998, so the
conversation informing the President that it had been signed
could not have occurred any earlier than this date.
387. Jordan 5/5/98 GJ at 224-26.
388. Jordan 3/5/98 GJ at 25. Cf. Jordan 5/5/98 GJ at 225-26
(When President was told Ms. Lewinsky signed affidavit, "[t]here
was no elation. There was no celebration.").
389. Jordan 3/5/98 GJ at 26 (emphasis added).
390. Id. at 125.
391. Clinton 8/17/98 GJ at 73-75.
392. Id. at 75-77.
393. That matter is still under criminal investigation by
this Office.
394. Under the federal witness tampering and obstruction of
justice statutes, it is a crime to attempt to corruptly persuade
another person with intent to influence the person's testimony in
an official proceeding. See 18 U.S.C. §§ 1503, 1512.
395. Clinton 1/17/98 Depo. at 68.
396. Id. at 70-71.
397. Id. at 72-73, 79.
398. Id. at 80-82.
399. Id. at 212-213.
400. Jones v. Clinton, Order of Judge Susan Webber Wright,
January 29, 1998, at 2.
401. Currie 1/24/98 Int. at 8 ("CURRIE advised CLINTON may
have mentioned that CURRIE might be asked about LEWINSKY");
Currie 5/6/98 GJ at 118 (Q: "Didn't the President talk to you
about Monica's name coming up in those cases [Whitewater or Jones
v. Clinton]?" BC: "I have a vague recollection of him saying
that her name may come up. Either he told me, somebody told me,
but I don't know how it would come up.").
402. Currie 5/7/98 GJ at 80-81; GJ Exhibit BC 3-10, 1248-DC-00000307 (Presidential Call Log, Jan. 17, 1998). The White House
call log indicates that the President called Ms. Currie at 7:02
p.m., they talked at 7:13 p.m., and the call ended at 7:14 p.m.
The President returned to the White House from the
deposition at 4:26 p.m. 1248-DC-00000288 (Kearney's logs).
403. Currie 1/27/98 GJ at 65-66. The President confirmed
that he called Betty Currie shortly after his deposition, and
that he asked her to come in on Sunday, her day off. Clinton
8/17/98 GJ at 148-49.
The next day at 1:11 p.m., the President again called
Ms. Currie at home. Currie 5/7/98 GJ at 85. GJ Exhibit BC 3-11,
1248-DC-00000311 (Presidential Call Log, Jan. 18, 1998).
Ms. Currie could not recall the content of the second call,
stating: "He may have called me on Sunday at 1:00 after church to
see what time I can actually come in. I don't know. That's the
best I can recollect." Id. at 89.
404. Currie 5/7/98 GJ at 91. See also Clinton 8/17/98 GJ at
149 (acknowledging that Ms. Currie normally would not be in the
White House on Sunday).
405. Currie 1/27/98 GJ at 70.
406. Currie 1/24/98 Int. at 6.
407. Currie 1/27/98 GJ at 71, 73-74. At different points in
the grand jury testimony, there are minor variations in the
wording used or agreed to by Ms. Currie in recounting the
President's statements. Compare id. at 71 ("You were always
there when Monica was there." (Currie statement)) with id. at 74
(Q: "'You were always there when she was there, right?' Is that
the way you remember the President stating it to you?" BC:
"That's how I remember him stating it to me.").
408. Id. at 72.
409. Id. at 72. See also Currie 1/24/98 Int. at 6.
410. Ms. Currie interpreted this last comment as simply a
statement, not necessarily one for which the President was
seeking her agreement. Currie 1/27/98 GJ at 72-73.
411. Currie 1/27/98 GJ at 71 (Q: "Okay. And then you told
us that the President began to ask you a series of questions that
were more like statements than questions." BC: "Right.").
412. Id. at 72-76.
413. Id.
414. Currie 1/24/98 Int. at 7.
415. Id. at 6.
416. Currie 1/27/98 GJ at 32-34.
417. Id. at 82-83.
418. Id. at 76.
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